In this episode of the Amadeus Travel Tech Talk, we take a deep dive into the world of business travel and how this sector has changed since the pandemic, as well as discuss how TMCs need to evolve to service the business traveler of tomorrow. Topics discussed:
Speakers:
To check out our other Amadeus Travel Tech Talk podcast episodes, visit: https://amadeustraveltechtalk.buzzsprout.com.
To stay up to date on the latest news from Amadeus, and to catch the next episodes in our series, check out the Insights section on our website or follow us on Spotify or Apple podcasts.
In this episode of the Amadeus Travel Tech Talk, we take a deep dive into the world of business travel and how this sector has changed since the pandemic, as well as discuss how TMCs need to evolve to service the business traveler of tomorrow. Topics discussed:
Speakers:
To check out our other Amadeus Travel Tech Talk podcast episodes, visit: https://amadeustraveltechtalk.buzzsprout.com.
To stay up to date on the latest news from Amadeus, and to catch the next episodes in our series, check out the Insights section on our website or follow us on Spotify or Apple podcasts.
Lyn O'Connor 0:04
Hi, and welcome to the Amadeus Travel Tech Talk Podcast. I'm Lyn O'Connor, and I'll be your host for today's episode where we'll take a deep dive into the world of business travel. We'll be discussing the current state of traveling for business. The lessons learned from the pandemic, and the concerns people have about getting back on the road again. So joining us today is CWT's EVP and Chief Customer Officer, Nick Vournakis, and our very own Paul de Villiers, SVP Global Business Travel Accounts. We really have a wealth of TMC and travel technology experience with us today as both Paul and Nick have worked in the industry for many years now. For this session, we'll highlight some of the key findings from Amadeus, his recent research, which will drive our discussion, namely the Rebuild Travel Censuswide survey of over 9000 travelers, and also our ebook Rebuilding Business Travel. These are both great resources, which offer insights on the outlook for the business travel industry, and some recovery strategies for 2022. They also highlight how TMCs need to evolve to service the business traveler of tomorrow. Before we get started, I'd like to thank all of our listeners for joining and encourage you to check out other podcasts in the series, which is called The Big Rethink. This whole series is focused on how the industry can recover from the impact of COVID-19, snd how technology can support in the recovery, boosting traveler confidence and trust. So let's get to it. Nick, Paul, this is a great opportunity to get together. Nick, I know you've recently been promoted to your new position, so congratulations on that. And Paul, you're still relatively new to your current role, although maybe it doesn't always feel so new with all of today's challenges. But a warm welcome to both of you. And thank you for joining us today.
Nick Vournakis 1:58
Well, Lynne, thank you for having me. And I am delighted to be here today, really looking forward to the discussion.
Paul de Villiers 2:06
Hi, Lynn. And thank you, Nick, for joining us today. And I'd like to join Lyn as well in congratulating you. And I really look forward to this discussion between the three of us.
Lyn O'Connor 2:16
Great, so to begin, it's no secret that business travel was one of the hardest hit sectors of the travel industry during the pandemic. As a result of COVID-19, the world has been in and out of lockdown since early 2020 now, but vaccination programs around the world are starting to pick up pace, and we're gradually seeing lockdown restrictions ease and borders opening. Even though new variants mean it's still very volatile out there. For me personally, the US opening their borders for international travelers at the beginning of November felt like a big milestone. So we're hearing predictions that leisure travel will bounce back quickly, but there's been some doubt in the media about the return of business travel. As you represent two leading companies in the corporate travel space, can you maybe give us your take on this? And, Paul, let's start with you. And then Nick, I'd really like to hear your thoughts from CWT perspective.
Paul de Villiers 3:10
Yes, I can say with confidence business travel will return that is really clear. It's an inherent part of any successful business. But it will look different in a post COVID-19 world. And if you think about it, traveling has just become a little bit more complicated. Especially if you're going international, I recently traveled for business to the US. And just to be sure I carried a lot of papers with me I had the PCR certificate printed out the vaccination documents, the passenger disclosure, other documents, etc, etc. It kind of reminded me of going back 20 years when we had to carry the paper tickets if you remember that. So it was a bit of a deja vu. But from a more scientific perspective. We've recently published some research where we surveyed over 9,000 travelers in nine different markets. And with a specific focus on the sentiment towards travel. What we did find was that there is a big appetite for business travel, and business travelers are willing to share health data and embrace new tech as they start traveling again, which is a good sign. Actually over 70% of travelers are eager to travel the next 12 months is what we found. And half of global travelers will be traveling for business to a destination requiring a flight within the next year. The most popular regions that we saw for business travel with is demand in the coming year, primarily Europe, I think Europe has been quite suppressed for some time we saw there was recovery in North America, for example, that was higher than Europe, but Europe is the lead in terms of demand, let's say. Then Asia and Middle East actually Middle East, almost a quarter of respondents expected to do two business trips in the coming months.
Lyn O'Connor 4:50
Great, thank you Paul
Nick Vournakis 4:53
So Paul, that's totally congruent with what we're seeing here at CWT as well and in my role I do have the opportunity to connect with our customers on a very regular basis. And this is always a key topic for discussion, right, which is not just what does return to travel look like. But what is the sentiment within the organization in terms of getting out and back on the road, and there is very clear, pent up demand to get back on the road. And I think your data is very reflective of that. We actually took the opportunity to survey our own customer base very recently, to try to qualify, what they think return to travel will look like in 2022. And by and large, there is a very clear increasing trend of expectations for travel as you move from Q1 to Q2 to Q3 to Q4. And I think that's supported by the recovery, quite frankly, that we're already seeing in the market. Because there has been a fair amount of travel recovery already. If we look again, across the CWT client base, the recovery is definitely very uneven across all markets, whether you're talking about regional markets, or specific business verticals. But we have seen, I think, a very clear uptick and steady uptick, going all the way back to early 2021. So specifically, some of the markets that that returned the quickest, for sure, China, we also happen to serve a very large portion of the US military, which has been, I think, very, very resilient with regard to business travel demand. Outside of those two markets, I think we saw clear recovery in the US domestic market, in advance of other regions of the world. And then primarily Southern Europe, where recovery in France has been kind of leading the way but followed right behind in areas like Italy, and Spain as well, not so much in Western Europe with regard to the UK. But by and large, the leading trend there is areas or regions that have a lot of domestic travel tend to recover quicker. Number one, if you look at it from a pure industry or segment basis, there's also clear trends there as an example, not a lot of recovery in the world of professional services. But that's a great juxtaposition compared to industries like life sciences who have rebounded much quicker. And then if you look at size, demographics, definite recovery in the mid market in advance of the large cap market as well. So it's really interesting, I think when you start pulling apart the different demographics to take a look at where that recovery already exists. And that becomes, I think, a really nice proxy for what we can expect going forward.
Lyn O'Connor 7:51
Very interesting, great insights from both of you, thank you very much. So the pandemic has definitely had a huge impact not only on the travel industry, but on the way that companies do their business. So working from home is now the norm, people are able to conduct business and manage their commercial relationships online. I think we can all agree it's been a very good exercise. But it also has made one thing very clear. And that's we can't deny that business is better in real life. Having said that, business travel will still take time to recover. So what do you think needs to be done to speed up this process? And, Nick, if we can start with you this time?
Nick Vournakis 8:30
Thanks, Lyn. And, you know, I think Paul really already touched on this earlier. And I think we need to pull that thread a little bit here. The thing that will change most fundamentally about travel going forward is providing enough information and the level of comfort to get even very seasoned business travelers comfortable with what to expect. You know, if Paul himself is carrying a boatload of documentation that A. he hadn't had to carry before, and B. you're kind of bringing it along, just in case, it could cause some concerns, some confusion. And for a very seasoned business traveler dealing with some of the ambiguity and uncertainty may be okay. But certainly for those travelers who might only have the opportunity to take one or two trips a year. It's a very different experience. So I think as an ecosystem, we have to get our arms wrapped around how do we create a level of comfort and a level of assurance in order to inform decision making, so that people can feel really confident about what it takes to get from point A to point B? Now the good news is there are solutions already in place that help address that. And if I think about one of the things that CWT did early on in the pandemic was implementing a series of tools that we call CWT travel essentials and effectively what CWT travel essentials allows us to do is curate a set of information that would otherwise be really difficult for a traveler to get on their own. So, with a few pieces of critical information such as: What kind of passport do you carry? Where are you coming from? And where are you going to? We can immediately curate a set of information that starts to inform things like What type of vaccine requirements might be in play, What kind of testing requirements are in play, What type of government regulations and or quarantine restrictions may be in play, and then getting all of this integrated at the point of sale, so that it'll become very easy for a traveler to get access to that information in order to make that decision, I think is really important. But it just means that travel is going to look and feel a bit different, it will be a bit more onerous than perhaps it's been in the past. But it is still so important. As an example, I just had the opportunity to spend last week with our new board of directors here at CWT. And at one point, we looked around the table. And our new chairperson said, we could not have accomplished this over Zoom. So the idea that business happens in real life is, I think, very poignant. And I think we as an industry have to get comfortable with what it's going to take to really create that sense of comfort and assurance, to make it easier for the business traveler.
Paul de Villiers 11:30
I totally agree with your Nick, you know, doing business in person is just there isn't a substitute. I took on my new role several months ago, and my biggest challenge was trying to meet customers and get to know them, it's not very easy over Zoom, or Teams or the equivalent tools. So I had the opportunity to go to the BTS show in London, at the Excel. And I was very excited. But it was a mixture of excitement, it was like the first time I was gonna fly in 18 months. And it was a mixture of excitement about flying again, but apprehension about, how am I actually going to get there, am I going to make it. And coming back to your point, it's having the comfort and the certainty that you have everything you need. So just my personal experience, when I checked-in unfortunately, I had a booking on one carrier, but it was operated by another. And just the check in process was a total nightmare. The fact that you had to fill in information on the one carrier going there, using one tool, and then coming back with a different carrier using a different tool, which had a whole bunch of other requirements, or, for example, the fact that I needed to check-in to get my seat number in order to fill in the pre-flight information, but because it was a cod share I couldn't check in. So it became very complicated. Anyway, I think the key issues are the concerns that business travelers have right, which is the fear of catching COVID whilst they're traveling, what does it mean in terms of self-isolation, or quarantine before or after travel, you know, changing restrictions, actually, whilst traveling, you know, you're in Europe, and the US just mandates a new rule. What do you do? How do you get back? I had a friend of mine from South Africa, actually, in Spain recently, when the news of the Omicron broke out. And yeah, he just had to change all these plans to get back to South Africa. So that was very, very stressful. So I think at the end of the day, we need the technology to be able to have everything in an easy manner, in one place, easy to use, things like mobile applications, which are providing you on-trip notifications in terms of what's going on the ability to self-service, self check-in, have entering your boarding pass like this before on the mobile and you just more comfortable having all together. What is true, though, is now we are even more dependent on mobiles than ever before. Right? So this is where it's all going. But yeah, I think it's a question of getting the tools in place, making it easier for travelers, and making them feel confident. And if something does go wrong, they know what to do.
Lyn O'Connor 13:59
Great, thank you. And thank you for sharing your personal experiences, I think that's really going to resonate with our listeners. So we've learned a lot about the business traveler attitudes towards getting on the road again, and we've heard some hints about what would make them feel more confident when they get to do this. But what about TMCs? Will TMCs need to adapt their ways of working to be ready to service the new needs of tomorrow's business traveler? And if so, how? And Paul, maybe you can start us off on this one.
Paul de Villiers 14:28
Yeah, I think during the last 18 to 24 months, business travel agencies and corporations themselves have been using the downtime to continue expanding on their digital transformation journeys. Clearly going forward, the TMCs are going to play a major role as information providers until I would say pre COVID. They were primarily providing travel, issuing tickets, making changes, etc. But now it's all about having the latest and the most accurate information at their fingertips to provide to the customers. So clearly keeping clients employees safe and well during business trips is now the number one business travel requirement for customers. And more than 92% of the responded to the survey stated this was absolutely the number one priority. And also second rank priority, which came out was the ability to alert their customers. So knowing where the employees were and the ability to alert the employees when they needed to. The TMC is also seeing a shift from unmanaged to manage travel business. So before there are many mid or small sized companies that were not really using structured programs or professional travel management services, but clearly now because of the complexity and the need to ensure safety for their employees, there seems to be a shift. So there's an increased demand for managing travel disruption, whether this be last minute changes before or during a trip, canceling a trip just before departure, or sometimes even what to do when airlines are canceling or rescheduling flights at very short notice. And again, the example I gave before of, you know, having to return early from a trip because all of a sudden there's an outbreak or there's the change rules in your home country, and what do you do how to get back, right? So generally, people are concerned, and they need to know that they will be supported in real-time. And by the way, it's really critical when you're stuck in an airport, your just stressed because all of a sudden, your whole trip has been, you know, completely messed up. And you want to get someone to help you, it's really critical that you can actually speak to somebody, I think that is priceless going forward, I think there's nothing worse than being totally stressed out at the airport, you call a service number, and then you get eight options of choices of things to do. And none of them are relevant to your situation.
Nick Vournakis 16:46
So Paul, I think you hit the nail on the head here, which is TMCs have really no choice but to be as relevant as possible in the channel that travelers want to interact with. So if I think about the way our business model is going to change going forward, first and foremost, we have already learned that the nature of taking calls is different. So our calls are necessarily longer than they have been historically. And again, because I think you have travel agents engaging and travel counselors engaging in a way that they necessarily haven't had to before around creating kind of that level of comfort and assurance. So by and large, the nature of how those calls are handled and the time in which it takes to get from issue to resolution that's changing. And we need to understand what the overall impact that has. And actually what that does is it reinforces to your exact point, this importance of having a people based model, having people there to address people's concerns, especially when things go wrong, is tremendously important. But the other big change for TMCs is being able to accommodate a new decision making model and potentially a new operating model that is congruent with the way people want to work and behave. So you referenced earlier that the importance of mobile as a channel. And that's critical. But not just because you can use a mobile to call somebody but because you can also use that same technology to message in chat, and having availability. In a channel like that, especially when you don't want to go into a series of voice prompts, which may or may not lead you to a person. If you could instead just be no one text message away from support. That's really, really important. And CWT has invested a lot of time and energy through the pandemic to ensure that we can deliver that type of messaging and chat functionality at scale globally, because we know this is the way people want to work. On top of that, I think what we're seeing in the post COVID area, or you know, as we emerge from the post COVID era, the nature of how we work is necessarily going to look different, there will be fewer and fewer people who are working from offices, there are going to be fewer and fewer people who are sat resident in a single location for for an extended period of time. So if the nature of how people are working is changing, then I think the TMC model has to learn and adapt and get comfortable with what an always on model is going to look like from a business travel perspective. And again, not an always-on model that always has a traveler counselor, ready to take a telephone call, but a model that has that kind of multichannel or omnichannel capability where you might be able to get support through a web based device or a mobile device or in the need of getting an actual human on the line. So I think those two elements are going to be really important we need to create ccommodate a model going forward where we know the workforce is necessarily changing. And we need to adapt to that, and ensuring that we can address the channel of choice, because that's going to be more and more mobile going forward. And we need to be ready.
Lyn O'Connor 20:18
Thank you. That's really interesting. I love the idea, Nick of being one text away from support. And that would really encourage me to brave a business trip again. So, it sounds as if there are plenty of opportunities for TMCs to demonstrate their value. That's undisputed. But it's clear that some adaptation will be needed to cater for this new world of business travel. Can I ask you to explain this in a bit more detail? And, Nick, if we could start with you? That would be great.
Nick Vournakis 20:45
Yeah, absolutely, Lyn, thanks. So I think if you have heard a lot of what we've said already, there is this very critical blend of people plus technology. So our ecosystem is not going to be fully people driven, or fully technology oriented. It's really the blend of people plus technology, that will be the winning solution going forward. And that's actually exactly how CWT sees our business, we are a people plus technology company. Getting that right necessarily means investment in infrastructure to make that easy. Therefore, with the help of travel technology, companies like Amadeus, we have created a global platform that ties the people system, so all of our travel counselors all around the world, and enables them with the right technology so that we have the best possible experience with a traveler when they engage with us, how they engage with us, because again, they might be engaging with a counselor through a purely digital platform like text and chat. And that should look and feel no different than the voice channel. But that technology is important because we need to understand as much about the context of that traveler, before the engagement even starts. So when you have a fully interconnected, global system, where a travel counselor sees an incoming query from a traveler, they understand based on the profile, who they are, who they work for, what their trip context looks like, they can very easily initiate the conversation. So in the case that Paul referenced earlier, if you've got a traveler who's sat in a queue at an airport, because of some type of weather disruption, or delay, wouldn't it be great if the initial text is you know 'Hey, I need help'. And the response is, 'Oh, Nick, hey, thank you for contacting us looks like you're stuck in Chicago right now. Do we need to find you a new flight out?' I mean, to me that takes away all of the front end of what we become accustomed to on those calls, which is, Who are you? Who do you work for? Let me pull up your travel policy. And that's really not necessary, when you have the right kind of infrastructure in place to support that experience. And then how you expose that infrastructure in a digital channel for the traveler in a way that drives simplicity. And for the Travel Manager continues to drive visibility for where their people are, how they're impacted, what does their health, safety and wellbeing look like? I think that's really, really important, because then you can start to be proactive. And again, Paul, referenced the timeliness of the emergence of Omicron. And specifically, the area of South Africa. Understanding that put us CWT in a position where we could proactively reach out to travelers to get them back as quickly as possible. And we had phenomenal feedback from our client base on going over and above the call of duty to get folks home as quickly as possible. Because, again, I think, as we've referenced, getting in to your destination is one thing, but ensuring you can get home, that's quite different. And people plus technology infrastructure and ethos is exactly the type of thing that will enable that and these uncertain times.
Paul de Villiers 24:17
Nick, I think you're spot on. I think the challenge the TMC have going forward is getting the balance, right between the staffing dilemma. So first of all, when do you re-staff you know, we've got so many waves of it looks like things pick up and then it's not that good anymore, and then everyone get shopeful again, and then there's a downturn again. So how do you staff in a way that you can manage the business efficiently? And how do you combine that with technology, right? So I think these are the two key elements and I really like your people based model. I think you're right. And how do you combine that with automated tools, whether they are bots, or if someone's chatting with a bot, but if it really gets complicated, they actually started chatting with a person. So you really feel you have someone behind you, how do you get that blend? Right? I think going forward, the biggest challenge right now is providing those services, being proactive, like the example you gave, having access to relevant and timely real-time information on especially COVID-19 related issues, having the best possible content to give options to your customers when they are in a distressed situation, whether it be hotel options, alternative transport methods or alternative flights. And that's a challenge as well getting all the different options together. Basically, you know, how do you transform your business with technology, and upskilling, your staff for attracting new talent whilst your revenues are still relatively or in some cases extremely suppressed? I think this is the the million dollar question.
Lyn O'Connor 25:46
Thank you. I agree with Paul, I love that whole people plus technology mindset. And as you say, Nick, getting back home is so charged with emotion, so there's no better way to build trust, and to do that well, so thank you. So we've talked about the challenges. But now let's turn our attention to which solutions could overcome them. So given everything we've discussed today, what do you think are the areas TMCs need to be focused on to make sure they're ready for the new world of business travel? And Paul, maybe you can kick us off with this one.
Paul de Villiers 26:18
For me, the one that stands out the most right now is enhanced duty of care. This is absolutely critical. And there are different attempts in industry. Actually, Amadeus is driving one of them, which is the Safe Travel Ecosystem, which is a global program that we are driving to help the industry overcome some of the challenges caused by COVID-19, by delivering the technology, and more than that, actually fostering the industry collaboration. Because it's not just about, you know, developing technology in silos, it's actually making sure that the industry is working together in the same direction. The introduction of sustainable travel management tools, we haven't touched much on it today. But the big buzzword and travel today is also sustainability. And that I think is another key area where it's a challenge for TMCs, but also an opportunity where they can really service the customers and show them the different options in terms of what is economically friendly, providing carbon footprint calculators, giving options, even potentially, for customers or companies to pay more for certain trips, because they are more eco-friendly. That is another area definitely to develop and to exploit. And then I think selling products beyond flights. Clearly, there's an opportunity for additional services. I mean, today, the ability to sell PCR testing, sounds like a bit of a joke, but when I went to London, I had to pay for PCR before I left Madrid, then I had to pay for pre pay one and reserve one in London. And I think many people don't even take the second test because they come back before day two. And that's an absolute goldmine. I paid a fortune for a PCR test, I think a lot of people are making a lot of money out of that today. And then what we touched on before, which is the technology to improve customer service, combining this thing between offering technology that's easy to use. For example, if I'm stuck in an airport, and I want to change a flight, we have a tool called Amadeus Ticket Changer which we offer to our customers. And basically it automates the whole process of re-issuing a ticket that I can do as a passenger complying with all the corporate policies, etc. So that's the kind of thing that will be very important going forward. One thing we've also seen in the survey, which was very interesting was that the TMCs are rethinking their pricing model, because of experience in 2020, when they had a massive amount of cancellations, and a lot of work to support their end customers. But the financial model that was set up was based on more transactional and wasn't really fit for purpose. So many of them were thinking of introducing baseline management fees or subscription fees or some sort of retainer, and then additional fees for transactions. So that's had an impact as well the way they think going forward. So I think most TMCs will be developing a hybrid model going forward. Nick has already alluded to it where you have people that are working from home or potentially from office, but they're available. We combine that with technology, and you start getting a solution, which is I will always feel supported wherever I am as a business traveler.
Nick Vournakis 29:11
Yeah, I really want to reinforce that, Paul, because I think this idea of number one, solving for what it takes to create that level of comfort is important now and it will continue to be important going forward. And I think part of our job is not just to be in the moment and react to the moment. If COVID has taught us anything, it's about the importance of agility, and switching direction based on your current environment. But regardless of the situation that we're in today, being relevant in the future means understanding kind of what's on the horizon and to some degree, what's just beyond that horizon. And you're right I think the topic of sustainability as something that we need to embrace as an ecosystem is absolutely a buzzword in today's context. But it's not new necessarily, and maybe what we're seeing now is a renewed energy and commitment to address sustainability with a price tag. Because quite frankly, making sustainable decisions may not mean, you're always taking the least expensive option, or it may require investment. So if we think about the near term tick boxes to help address sustainability, helping customers understand their carbon footprint, those capabilities exist today, assessing the impact of carbon impact at point of sale, those tools exist today. And I think we're seeing a heavy level of integration at the point of sale to track that. But that's really different than truly understanding what it means to help an organization meet a carbon neutral objective in 5, 10, 15 years, because from a TMCs perspective, where we're generally really happy when customers booked trips, because trips are what makes the cash register ring, we might need to bring a level of insight to the table that helps customers understand when do you need to not travel? When is that trip unnecessary? How can you avoid, not just kind of maximize or, you know, understand and offset or minimize carbon footprint? But how do you reduce a trip altogether. And that's a different way for us to be thinking with our customers going forward and I think that's really important. And, and I also think having a view of the horizon and just beyond also means having an understanding of the problems that we're not going to solve on our own. So I think we have to fundamentally get comfortable with the idea that not every provider needs to do 100% of the work. And I think we're really keen on ensuring that we can operate an open ecosystem, where we have an expertise and understanding what it means to use API's to drive the right level of connectivity. And you'll know this very clearly in the work that you do today because of the importance of acquiring content. And that's an issue today, and it will be an issue going forward. So I think truly understanding what it means to be relevant in the future, I think we've got a really good handle on what it's going to take to provide a high level of assurance that we can make it comfortable for people to get back on the road again. But we've got to keep our eyes on the horizon with regard to what are those issues that we need to solve for? And how does that fundamentally change the way we operate within the ecosystem, who we partner with how we behave, because I think any organization that says, you know, we're going to build all of this in house, I think they're crazy. And we're never going to aspire to that. I think we're going to build the things that we think make a lot of sense for us and help provide more options for our travelers. But we appreciate, you know, being able to work with partners, just like Amadeus, where we can co create, we can collaborate and we can ensure that we're bringing great solutions for that help move our whole ecosystem forward.
Lyn O'Connor 33:33
Nick, we certainly appreciate the partnership as well. If I think about what we've learned today, it's from the business traveler’s perspective, there’s a massive appetite to travel to work again. Obviously, the first step is borders reopening and travel restrictions easing, but the return of business travel will need collaboration across the whole industry. Traveler concerns will need to be addresss and we also need to boost their confidence. These concerns will mean a shift towards managed travel and it also seems Duty of Care and disruption management taking center stage. This offers TMCs a huge opportunity to showcase their value, by embracing the role of an information provider that you mentioned. This will mean reviewing traditional business models focused on transactions, to account for the increased levels of servicing that will be needed. And of course, all of this will require the technology to power safer and smart business travel. Thank you so much Nick and Paul for your insights today on the future of business travel. And finally, thank you to our listeners for joining the conversation! To stay up to date on the latest news from Amadeus, and to catch the next episodes in our series, check out the Insights section on the Amadeus website or follow us on Spotify or Apple podcasts.